Whenever I switched back, it was properly adding distance and showing the right power but after the training, it showed that it hat not collected data most of the time. ANT+ Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard ANT+ power meter, with speed and cadence baked in as well. So by how much will power accuracy degrade is there a relationship between temperature and power such that I could take a view on when to stop using it outdoors? Last night I was cleaning my chain/drivetrain and I noticed the bike doesnt appear in-line with the trainer: If I look overhead, the frame and centered front wheel are pointing slightly right of center when compared to the feet of the trainer. Replacements were handled quick and easily, communication is prompt and polite. Disappointed. Wahoo KICKR 2018 Trainer In-Depth Review, Wahoos KICKR Bike with Built-In CLIMB: Everything you ever wanted to know, Best Bike GPS & Cycling Tech Buyers Guide, Indoor Cycle Trainer Desk (RAD/Lifeline/Vinsetto/Conquer/etc), The New Polar Vantage Series: Everything you ever wanted to know, click here to Subscribe without commenting. In that case, the company claims up to 1,800w of resistance at 40KPH. In Zwift you get variability by having the road incline change and by being able to instantly sprint. The lbs that sold it to me offered to look at the bike both on the Kickr and with the wheel on, but I havent bothered yet. Again Wahoo support only asked for the S/N. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.). Noise level much higher that my previous Core which was super silent. Heres the set details: As you can see, overall things are very close at least for most of the steady-state sections. Not sure what difference this will make though? For the most part, sorta like with your phone, while different manufacturers have a handful of stock apps most apps are things you download from 3rd parties. -you have to look from behind if the chain is pointing towards the cassette cog, i mean the chain coming from deraileur into cog ? App Compatibility: Every app out there basically (Zwift, TrainerRoad, Rouvy, Road Grand Tours, SufferFest, Kinomap, etc) I respond by saying that honestly at this point if I needed an HR monitor or the other items I would rather buy them from another company that I have always had good luck with. This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. If you found this review useful hit up the links at the bottom of the review I appreciate it! However, this exposed position is necessary in order to achieve the compact dimensions that make the trainer compatible with almost all current road and mountain bikes. Sorry! The three big spikes you see in the middle there are supposed to be 800w efforts held for 10-seconds per the workout. I dont know if they do it automatically or if there were an actual issue. CompetitiveCyclist just got in stock of all the major KICKR models, and all are currently showing in stock for immediate shipment. To make it a bit easier to read Ill add a 5-second smoothing and zoom in for the first 9 minutes or so: You can see that the Stages LR and CORE match very well, with the SRM pedals tracking a bit below it. In static ergo mode it does the same thing but is only slightly more stable. For example, for my accuracy testing section, I recorded the data on a Garmin Edge 520 as well as the trainer apps. Unit being replaced under warranty. He was wondering if he could use a generic 12V, 5A power brick instead. BTW, my Wahoo Core works great. I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars. Thats despite the fact that the KICKR 2018 has a 16lb flywheel versus the 12lb one on the KICKR CORE. Given the KICKR CORE is a smart trainer, itll change resistance automatically in a few different ways, primarily driven by different applications/methods. What I do know though is that they arent typically 20% easier. In fact, because of the way Wahoo has handled this, it is very unlikely I will ever purchase anything from them again. And thats probably true. Since I am 9-speed bound, the free cassette with the Kickr doesnt help at all. Anybody experiencing the same or is it normal? But this timing was good: And the power curve between the Stages LR and Wahoo KICKR CORE was very close as well: Next, lets look at a structured workout over on Zwift. Trainer is super silent and even power data are perfectly aligned with those from my Favero power meter. Im on my 3rd Core. Thanks, I appreciate all the work you do. After upgrading to Firmware 1.1.1 I had the same issue. Even more, if you use Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with coupon code DCRAINMAKER, first time users save 15% on applicable products! Gradient resistance seems appropriate, but theres nothing preventing overspin. Hope you saved the box. Either way, for my riding it doesnt bother me, and for most people Id easily recommend this over the full KICKR based primarily on the cost savings. But it should not be normal that I would have to completely readjust everything whenever I switch between Kickr and outdoor riding, right? We had no issues with the two Direto trainers. So I always turn it off. link to youtube.com. I cannot keep up with my real world group riders (similar strength) on zwift anymore, Im getting dropped HARD and fast. Its listed on the Wahoo website.It concerns the chainstay not clearing the trainer. But when I install the bike and ride it, it makes a lot of noise, so I think something is not right. Quick and simple. I have some problems with my 4 months old Kickr Core. Youll spin up to about 23MPH and then stop pedaling. Bu t i am struggling to choose between the Kickr Core or the Neo2. 3. Another one sent 24 hrs ago and no response. Sounds like somehow you got the older KICKR one, and not the 2018/CORE one. The ERG mode is so flaky, it starts increasing resistance as required then drops off, then tries again, and the result is there is just not enough resistance to make the required power to train as per the profile. I am probably going to make the leap in the next week, Core vs. Saris H3, utilizing my 20% discount at REI, which reduces the difference between the 2 units to $80. How sure are you that the Vortex was accurate? Also, while they were a bit backlogged in earlier April due to COVID-19, my understanding from talking to them late last week was that responses are fully caught up now. It works great since I like to have the fan off during warmup. Stated Accuracy: +/- 2% What Im really wondering most is if anyone has experience with belt tension and if it is worth looking into? Become a supporter now! I did not have to bend the frame or anything to get it onto the trainer, so it should be good?! I know this is hard information to gather, but does anyone know about issues with the. Some other users on the trainerroad forum have even commented that theirs seemed to do the same but it lessened over time (perhaps a tight belt that takes some time to wear in?). I dont understand why Wahoo does not make it an option for those of us who are not Shimano fans, but oh well I bit the bullet and ordered the Campy freehub body. So check that out. What I cant do is assess how the Core now stands up to other products in the 800-1100 range. In my case, if we look at the mean/max graph of this ride, it becomes more clear: You can see the peak 1-second power here about 75w over the next nearest value from the SRM pedals. It is not up to the company to decide for me and let me know that they have changed their mind about the exchange. First though, the usual note that a loaner unit was sent to me, which Ill shortly be packing up along with the KICKR CLIMB and a few other gizmos from the summer Wahoo releases. Have you heard of this issue frequently? Given that almost all KICKR CORE woes have come from bad power bricks, I wouldnt chance it. Quick question. (Instead of the bike pointing at 12 0clock, its maybe closer to one oclock) As I said the bike mounted up fine and seems very stable, no issues with that. Digital & free: First review: New Cervlo S5 Ultegra Di2 2023 The greatest aero bike of all First review: Vittoria Corsa N.EXT TLR The next level of tire technology? While that annoys me from the Wahoo just cant follow standards standpoint, practically speaking it has almost no impact on you. The trainer felt fine. Its still performance-oriented but cant quite keep up with the maximum simulated powers and gradients of the best smart trainers on the market. Then, I come here and write about my adventures. Heres Wahoos reply: This would be in addition to the date listed on the site at time of order. My Drivo, while having other issues, was perfect in that department. Flywheel began to separate from the unit after less than 20 miles (never even made it past 180W). I have the vortex, very happy with it for the price it costs, really nice. Bottom line, choose your engineers carefully . A month ago I bought a reconditioned Kicker Core. Have you come across anything like that with this trainer before? Hi Dave, Im using a 2014 Ultimate SL. Clever works based on the dates Wahoo gives, and then usually adds even a bit more buffer. But one has to balance that with the fact that once you add in a fan, most of these trainers would produce the same training room net sound anyway. Neither a combination of 130 mm quick release with 140 mm discs or 11-speed derailleurs with long cages ever contact the trainer. The optional KICKR HEADWIND fan makes more noise than the smart trainer even at medium wind speeds. But! Yeah, I cant share anything more specific than that as my usual rule buying trainers in August is a poor idea unless you get a really good sale on them. Instead, focus on the closeness of the Stages LR and KICKR CORE here. I had a question which may sound silly but I have the choice between a Drivo 1 and a Kickr Core for the same price, I thought Id go for the Drivo 1 but reading your Kickr Core review gave me doubts. Then after that Ill show you the differences for trainers in this price range from other companies. Well, thats a wee bit much. You can see the middle intervals were much more smooth than the first few, as I shifted for those. Bluetooth Smart FTMS: This follows the industry standard Bluetooth Smart FTMS control, which is basically the Bluetooth variant of ANT+ FE-C for controlling trainers. Just curious if its normal to have new Kickr Cores from CT dropshipped via the SLC? Im not the only one to see this Shane Miller also noticed the same thing, but in his case hes able to output more power. Another area that does matter is whether theres a delay or not in changes to resistance, and with the KICKR CORE I test that in my 3030 test down below in the power accuracy section. My question is, Does someone receive the speed data from the Core on Suunto (or other watch/GPS) and also on Zwift ? If 2 KICKRs die immediately upon plugging in, its hard to believe its not the outlets fault or the combination of KICKR+your outlet. Theres no better test of that than 3030 repeats (30-seconds at a high resistance, followed by 30-seconds at an easy resistance). When I added the Kickr Core, there appears to be interference. After confirming through multiple apps, I contacted Wahoo Support. I have received a Kickr Core last week and I just found what I think are abnormal noise/vibrations, specially at high speed. The Campy freehub for my Core is not prsently available becausehold for it, hold for itthe coronavirus has dried up their supply lines for Campy freehub bodies. From what Ive read, the new HDr by SRAM uses a 1.8mm wider freehub so your best bet is to contact Wahoo with this question. Did you enjoy this article? Unfortunately, my Kickr Core arrived with only half of the connector bolt on the non-drive side of the trainer in place. Tried this with iPhone and Android devices.I can do everything else, update firmware and spindown. I watched the video again and not sure but i think that the roller hits the tooth. This toggle not working is actually a known software issue were experiencing currently. Wahoo Kickr The snap is cheaper also. NAME has not provided the requested information and he has not responded. (Note: All of the charts in these accuracy portions were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. Also it annoys me that wahoo dont have a video where they for instance explain how the core should sound so buyers have an idea of what is good and what is bad. Sure, it wouldnt matter in a garage much. And of course you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! I think If I added a Rocker Plate, I would have to skew/angle the bike & trainer positions to get the COG right. Yeah, theres honestly a pretty big difference between the Flux and the Core. I love the feel, low volume and overall performance of the kickr my power is just WAYYYYYY down. Ray, you probably have some inside information on what new trainers might be presented at the Eurobike from Wahoo (or Tacx/Garmin or other companies) that you cant share with us, but would it be smart to wait a few weeks before getting a new Kickr, Kickr Core and/or Kickr Climb? You'll support the site, and get ad-free DCR! I will continue to take my jacket off in my cool, dry, concrete environment and if the trainer should permanently break, I will update this post. In short: recheck setup twice, check gear indexing, buy 34 11 cassette (you can even mount the one from the wheel on your trainer temporarly but you would need chainwhip and a tool, easy to get at decathlon or similar shop) I went up to about 700w, and then backed off slightly, and then went back up again. Once you manage to get the inside of the box detached from the outer shell, youll find the trainer sitting there. Hi there, I am looking to purchase my first trainer and am most concerned about getting something that is quiet. Im from out of the country and will be visiting the US, whats the best triathlon shop in city XYZ? I have just bought a new Core (I think it is noisy for a silent trainer though) and support arent very quick getting back to me (one response in the first 5 days, which was check you have bluetooth on, which i expect better of them (given comments previously on their superior customer service) for when my query detailed app connectivity but firmware failing. They apologized and said a wrong control board was installed, unit will be replaced. Any thoughts? The flywheel is wobbling a little and its emiting scrubing sound while spinning freely. And again, for me this doesnt show up in workout/ERG modes, only in non-workout modes for me. Im wondering if all is really OK. Heres the direct links, all of which help support the site: FWIW I just got a Refurb Kickr Core from Wahoo now that they have them back in stock. Its clearly well built, just like the beastly KICKR was before it. I did some steep incline testing and didnt see any issues. I know its an old review but i bought my trainer after reading it so hope there are still people usind Kickr Core here who can help. I am happy with the CORE, I have initially got a NEO V1 but had to return it due to incompatibility with disc-brake bikes. This *could* have, but luckily did not, lead to rider injury, or sever damage to the bicycle frame, or components. Main issue is lack of consistency in resistance resulting in spinning out when trying to maintain Watts in workout. Thought it might be helpful to others to reply to my own question. But most of this all boils down to two core methods: ERG Mode: Setting a specific power level i.e. I group ride on gravel with some expert/pro level guys that I can hang with and take my share of pulls. When it comes to that feel, I find the road-like feel of the KICKR CORE and the KICKR 2018 indistinguishable. All in all Im disappointed by quality of refurbed Cores. I regularly change my race wheel between an 11-28 and a 12-25 without problems depending on whether I expect to see significant undulations or a flat course, for example (because I know the chain and derailleur were originally set for an 11-28). My first solution is to pad the leg that sits above ground, see if that helps. It works great, except I have not been able to register it through the Wahoo Fitness app. First ride was even more disappointing. Next, lets go into regular Zwift mode for a non-ERG workout. Some reviews are over 60 pages long when printed out, with hundreds of photos! So now within a single channel you get power/control/cadence, leaving you an extra channel for heart rate. Max. The Kickr will measure the power on a complete different point of the bike and not instant on the crank like our power meter. In general, the trainer feels very secure thanks to the lack of noise and stable stand. that they no longer want me to have a Kickr Core and that therefore he has changed my Kickr Core replacement case into a return for refund. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer. Thats actually a first for me in the new DCR Cave, but Ive also got a pretty funky temporary mobile hotspot and cellular signal thingy close by that may be impacting stuff. Heres a bunch of random trip reports and daily trip-logs that Ive put together and posted. No problems, at least with the Snap. ), Just to comment on this old thread Andrew, the Vortex is only about 5% accurate, I have one. Either way, doesnt matter here. my kickr core just died. Ive now had 3 Cores in the last couple of years that have all failed. Another tip would be to remember the initial position of the ring so after mounting your wheel you can easily go back to previous setting. This thing is worse than useless. Does anyone have any experience of running their KICKR in the cold and how does it behave? Anyone happen to know the size of the bolt? Now after 4 months i have a scrubbing sound and they suggested i should align flywheel with a screwdriver O.O. I hate to do that, the turbo is heavy and packing it will be simply put, a PITA. I said I dont want to lose a training day and unit is working, asking to send replacement unit immediately which they agreed. I am currently on my third Wahoo Core Replacement and I can honestly say they dont last very long before they break and would recommend going a different brand. But before we get too far, lets do a quick dive into the core (get it?) Again, it sucks, I dont disagree. I just moved and Im pretty sure I threw box out since I didnt have any issues for 2 years. Though, most days I try to at least pretend not to like it. Its been about a month and a half since I started riding the KICKR CORE as my main trainer, so Ive got plenty of miles on it. For $8, this solves that problem. With the last Kickr (excluding the CORE) being release back in 2018, do you think we can we expect a new Kickr 2020 to be released in the near future? Im not sure their answer is on point, happy to hear from other what they think. I'm one of the ones that do. Kevin. The pros would only be just a bit beyond that. Thanks a lot luk for your prompt reply and for all the details. yes, I tooted my own horn but this is for context only as I know Im getting stronger year to year. Sure, some trainers can go over 20%, but realistically, if youve ever tried riding up 16% inclines on a road bike, youll either nearly fall over or just want to anyway. I have regularly calibrated both powermeters (including during the ride), and opened tickets with Wahoo, where the support is next to useless (calibrate it!). * Ordered a Kickr Core certified refurbished on Oct 7, 2019. Hi there, Ive been using my Core for 3 weeks now, after 12000 kms on a Drivo gen I. Was the only other thing in the room plugged in. Then I had to escalate to NAME supervisor in order to get the case changed back to waiting for an exchange. I asked them about instruction video but no response so far ;/ Any ideas? If youre trying to decide which unit to buy check out myin-depth reviews section. I'm loving it! During my 1 year warranty period I lost 4 months waiting for replacement units when I brought this up with Wahoo nothing was done. Im more interested in torque than max watts. Thats a tell-tale sign that I out-spun the trainer (its also a tell-tale sign that my legs couldnt pull it off). Their phone number there is simply an eternal wait so not much help. I dont want to use my Stages for indoor as it means swapping between bikes etc, I was hoping the KICKR would be within 2-3% which I could live with. I recently (1 month ago) got a KICKR Core but when I compare the 2 the KICKR is roughly 20-30 watts higher than the stages for a consistent 60 minute effort around tempo. . Kikcr; tacx genius . Zwift . -for me it is 20% chain lenght 70% worn chain, 10% gear indexing (hard fo tell from this video but it looks like the chain jumps not from behind but from top). Canyon Bike Setup #2: SRM EXAKT (Dual), Stages LR (Dual) What a horrible experience Im having. Does anyone else have a similar experience? And to compliment that, heresThe Girls (my wifes) list. But they dont answer my questions. I suspect this is impacting between 3-8% of people, based on the unit volumes being shipped. At first connection I updated firmware as promped by Wahoo app and did the required spindown afterwards. Not sure what is going on, how difficult is to send an email saying Garmin hasnt send, carrier hasnt update, how can they struggle with online sales? Plus, you'll be more awesome. The CORE is basically silent, the Flux S is a growling non-silent thig. My strength (power) is up theoretically Ive finished quite well in comparison to previous years in local outdoor racing events. My conclusion is: the Power meter % accuracy claim is a pure joke. . I waited a year in hopes Wahoo would truly solve the ESD frying the optical sensor problem. Had same problem just after first ride. I do not care about the climb or the TACX terrain simulationI train with GARMIN EDGE controlling the trainer and workouts downloaded from Training-peaks. Both beginners and experienced Zwifters will find a great tool in the KICKR CORE to have fun and train effectively. Did a calibration in Zwift after 10 minutes. As I noted, I cant hold 800w steady for that long, but I can hold about 700w. Better feel, smoother resistance changes, and I suspect more accurate rider power output. I guessed an M8, but I guessed incorrectly Its also difficult to get one of those bolt sizing ruler things in there to get an accurate measure. Its quieter, has better road feel, and supports multiple Bluetooth channels. Anyone having intermittent losses of signal/control using the edge 1030 and CORE ??? but I read some comments that the Core reads 30-50w lower than other power meters. This cable connects via a small flexible quick-disconnect option on the back of the trainer, in case you trip over the cable (it wont hurt anything then). Had my first ride yesterday on the new Kickr Core. Ive done multiple spindown calibrations with no change. When I remove the spacer and try again, the lockring easily fits and tightens. With the latest firmware updates, the CORE can broadcast cadence as part of the data stream, so its no longer an issue for Apple TV users. So far so good. Unlike past KICKR series products, this does actually require some assembly. Odd but important question. Assuming I made the best choice coming from a Snap. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. For most people (myself included), I just dont sprint enough and at high enough intensities for this to matter significantly. Im wondering how the Kickr core compares to Elite suito or Elite qubo fluid? Have been using my Core since Jan 28, 2021. This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. Handle: This unit lacks a handle compared to newer KICKR units, still, its not too bad to move around as I found out for taking photos I can drop a note here when it shows up again if folks are intersted. For that, the KICKR CORE and Stages LR agree nicely. If so, which one? As you noted what youre describing (it ignoring the set-point power levels) isnt a problem I remember hearing of before. So here is the most up to date list of products I like and fit the bill for me and my training needs best! Please let met know and I can further share Forum links. Third option is the best. Hi. However, youll notice youre missing a cassette on it. I have been using the 1030 loaded with workouts to control the CORE. Ordered 6 weeks ago, money gone, no shipment, no answer. Read the new issue of GRAN FONDO Cycling Magazine now. ), the Core significantly undershoots on the power numbers given compared to a pair of Assioma Duos. Wahoo Customer Support replied to my ticket this am. I suspect Wahoo will be able to reign this in, as this type of overshooting on early firmware of trainers is actually fairly common (from many companies). Image attached to better explain what IM trying to achieve. But at the end of the day, you might just be wondering What does Ray use when not testing new products?. What would you suggest to get? Its not realistic. Its worse than passive resistance (and the passive mode doesnt really work either, you can only use it unplugged and limit yourself to maybe 130 watts of resistance in your highest gear at about 100 RPM). This is all very new to me and I have found your channel a godsend. Theyre saying they replied that last week after his e-mail. Figuring out which are good quality and which are not is difficult, especially if you arent an electrical engineer or electrician with access to decent monitoring tools (such as an oscilloscope). Hello Dave, Im looking to buy a new trainer and Im really intrigued by the Kickr Core (low price, characteristics of an $1200 trainer, a bunch of 30 day free trials on multiple apps plus 12 weeks free Sufferfest etc.) Below are the most popular. Another thing: No explanation early on about possible delays. . Perhaps the wahoo app on an iphone will finally read cadence from the trainer reliably. It doesnt cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. Im headed to Paris what do you recommend for training or sightseeing? I did all the spindowns etc but still it remained the same. This may or may not be a greater trainer. You can hear it here in this video Ive shot: This change in volume comes from a change to the belt itself, going to a v-shaped belt. So there have been some developments. if it is your goal to get the same values on your Kickr and on the Stages power meter I have to disappoint you. Just my two cents. Although, realistically, you dont care about that. * I asked if the replacement Kickr Core would come with a return shipping label. By applying resistance control apps can simulate climbs as well as set specific wattage targets. If trainers or apps dont support these standards, then it makes it far more difficult for you as the end user. I would like to support DCR and enjoy ad-free DC Rainmaker ($20 per year). We spend this much money and it cant even last two years. If you use it a lot, get the core and sell the tacx. I have to check again later, but I think its more about the chain grinding against the front derailleur. Wahoo themselves also has SYSTM (just rebranded last week), which used to be The Sufferfest, and they have a free trial in there, as does most other companies. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so its a fair bit of work (and labor of love). My question, is this sound common or could something be loose internally. The noise factor is really important in my living situation so youve helped immeasurably. So its not where loud or anything, but there is some vibration and some periodic sound. Strange nobody has mentionned the thing in the comments. Youll also find a small tool for attaching the legs and some bolts. my weekly podcast - with GPLAMA, which is packed with both gadget and non-gadget goodness! Because CT has repeatedly noted in their responses that theyre expecting inventory at the end of May on that item. So the nearly 900w of the EXAKT simply isnt real. But is it really that simple? Now differences at peak sprint power are normal amongst any power meter or trainer test youll usually see say 10-40w differences for 1-second recording. Yikes! Ray, perhaps you can assist me and confirm what I am seeing on my Kickr Core. Now in my case, I did an entire unboxing video which Ive yet to edit and publish, so Im taking some screen captures from said video. Get all your awesome DC Rainmaker gear here! Now, in almost any gear setting, the chain is grinding SUBSTANTIALLY and not running smooth. Its as simple as that. An easy entry into the indoor scene! Recently after the CORE upgrade, it looks that the problem is more frequent I hope this is not corporate war between GARMIN/TAXC and the competition, meaning the big G is by purpose creating connectivity issues This is the third unit I receive. and which one is the quietest to use. Now whether this sprint overage is a big deal probably depends on a lot of factors. Hmm, its a little hard to tell exactly, as I can only presume based on the video phone stability that someone is also trying to wrestle you. The cassette is not compatible with the free hub. Here is a short video of the sound: If youre new around these parts, heres the long version of my story. And then again after this e-mail this past week, with again the same expected date of later this month. The replacement read exactly the same as my PM every time I measured it. Thats just how my story went and where we are now. The most common question I receive outside of the whats the best GPS watch for me variant, are photography-esq based. So how much will a rookie miss going the snap road. If yes, how did you fix it? I will try it this weekend. I know full well I cant hold 800w for 10-seconds except on the bestest of awesome days. I think they can damage your brand. That is poor service. Also, is it better to still wait a few days, re Eurobike. Hi, I have juste disovered jour blog, its an amazing work you do, I love your way of testing products. Much appreciated! While this sounds great (and pretty, and it is), it essentially falsifies data from an accuracy standpoint and makes everything look perfect.